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Talk:Alpha 7
Name Technically, this is an unnamed character, no? I'm pretty sure there are no other cases where we create an article for a code name. The only exceptions are presumed aliases such as Mandy and Jonathan Matijevich. --Proudhug 03:46, 27 February 2009 (UTC) : True, of course. Also, according to Saunders, Arthur Rabens was also likely an alias. ...are you considering moving these four to the unnamed characters pages? I strongly believe they are best where they are. 05:39, 27 February 2009 (UTC) No, just this one, because it's not even an actual name. --Proudhug 09:40, 27 February 2009 (UTC) : There is no difference here. All four of these are the in-universe pseudonyms with which each character was addressed. Who are we to pick and choose what names used in-universe aren't appropriate? 14:48, 27 February 2009 (UTC) This is a difficult point to argue, but let me try. :) I think the big difference here is "code name" vs. "alias." Mandy, Rabens and Matijevich are all posing as people with those names (if they're not real), however "Alpha 7" is likely not trying to convince anyone that this is his real name. I doubt he has a fake driver's license and passport that says "Alpha 7" on it. I doubt his co-workers would come up to him and be like, "Hey Alpha! You wanna come out for drinks with the guys?" I doubt a telemarketer would call and ask for "Mr. 7." The difference is that he's merely concealing his name while the other three are replacing their names. If we keep a page for a character like this, then we'd need to create one for characters like 1-Mary-38. --Proudhug 22:01, 27 February 2009 (UTC) : I definitely understand the difference you're illustrating there between an alias and a code name (and yes, very funny stuff!). But that difference isn't significant for this distinction; in the broader picture, aliases and code names are both pseudonyms. For all we know, "Alpha 7" was the only name by which Nathanson knew this man. In fact, I strongly believe this is the case, because if Nathanson already knew his name, he wouldn't have answered with a code name. I may be wrong with that, but can you prove it for certain? Kind of like how all the thieves in Reservoir Dogs knew each other only as "Mr. White", "Mr. Blue", etc. Nobody would ever claim that "1-Mary-38" or "Mobile 3" are pseudonyms, and we'll never have to make pages for them and similar characters. William Felt never put "Deep Throat" on a passport, but that name was more real to history for decades than some cop's call number. 23:34, 27 February 2009 (UTC) I agree with Proudhug. In fact, one time I moved it to Unnamed terrorists, but then someone reverted it. If 1-Mary-38 (1-M-38) doesn't get his own page, then neither should Alpha 7 (A7), see the parallels? Sk84life 01:35, 28 February 2009 (UTC) : See above. I already addressed those parallels. 02:49, 28 February 2009 (UTC) So does that mean you are in favour of the move or not? Sk84life 04:01, 28 February 2009 (UTC) : Nope, no need for the move, not for this character or any of the others actually. 06:14, 28 February 2009 (UTC) I still don't agree with the distinction. The criteria you're using to define "Alpha 7" as a pseudonym seems to apply to 1-Mary-38, as well. It's a fake name. Dictionary.com defines it as "a fictitious name used when the person performs a particular social role." That's exactly what 1-Mary-38 is. But either way, I don't feel the distinction should be pseudonym vs. non-pseudonym (whatever you're claiming this to be), but rather alias vs. code name. I can't think of any other objective way to do it. Here's an interesting scenario: Suppose we'd never found out Kevin Carroll's real name. Would you suggest we disambiguate "Alan York" and "Alan York (faker)" or place him under "Unnamed terrorists"? --Proudhug 04:35, 1 March 2009 (UTC) : You're forcing the wrong nuance of meaning onto the word "pseudonym" and are absolutely wrong with that explanation of "1-Mary-38" as a pseudonym. One cannot correctly call a radio call sign a pseudonym. Pseudonyms always have a clear sense of permanence, like literary pen names, aliases, and military/official code names. They are a permanent replacement of a person's real name. A radio call sign is simply a functional title. Titles (even words like sir, general, president) are not pseudonyms and never try to hide the real name. They are simply used instead of the real name as a matter of respect, hierarchy, or function. Deep Throat and the fictional Arthur Rabens, Alpha 7, and Mandy... are all pseudonyms. : That second example, I don't understand at all. We'd just call him "Kevin Carroll" just like we list Mandy under "Mandy", of course. 05:42, 1 March 2009 (UTC) My point was that A) the only way to get Alpha 7 into the realm of pseudonym is to expand it to the point where it would also include 1-Mary-38, and B) even if there is a difference between the two, this shouldn't be the criteria we use to determine whether or not a "false" name gets its own article. The criteria for creating false name articles should be 1) we don't know the character's real name, and 2) the name is an alias meant to deceive others (ie. they're "acting" the part). Alpha 7 wasn't acting the part of "Alpha 7," he was merely not revealing his own name. Clearly we need input from more editors here, since we've only heard from three. As for the Carroll example, I typed the names wrong. It's fixed now. --Proudhug 06:49, 1 March 2009 (UTC) : I can't help but be struck by how wrong your idea of what a pseudonym is! The idea that a code name, which may or may not (in his case) actually be the only name by which this character is identified even to his own conspirators, isn't a pseudonym... is downright confusing. It all hinges on the two facts that this character specifically identified himself as such, and, given the circumstances, implies that it was the only name anyone knew of him. To assume this was a communication call sign is to "assume" something, which isn't encyclopedic, and listing him with the other Unnamed terrorists would be to assume that this wasn't his alias in the group. The nature of that phone call very clearly suggested that this was his alias. 1-Mary-38 isn't an alias, therefore that police officer is unrelated to this whole discussion. 16:51, 1 March 2009 (UTC) Actor identity: solved Terrence Wayne was credited as "The Man", and no one was credited as "Alpha 7". I haven't found any confirming photos of Wayne to confirm if he looks like Alpha 7. Anybody know anything? Protocol Red 17:59, 19 August 2007 (UTC) : It's interesting that you bring this up, the exact same thing was on my mind awhile back. I tried to rent E.R., where Wayne also appeared (as the character "Floyd" in an episode of season 4 or something), but my video store doesn't carry it. If you or somebody else doesn't beat me to it first, I'm going to track down that ER episode at a library eventually, and make the positive ID with screen captures, since I'm nearly certain that it's him. The only reason I'm not completely certain and didn't list Wayne as Alpha's actor when I made that page is that there is another guy who had some lines and could perhaps be Wayne, however unlikely. We both know that Wayne looks more like a "Floyd" than Nathanson's younger man, and the age of Alpha's actor matches the earliest filmography entry for Wayne on IMDB, but I say we wait until we get a screenshot of "Floyd" from that ER episode to be sure. – Blue Rook 22:03, 19 August 2007 (UTC)talk :: Well, 9 months later I went and got the ER episode Terrence Wayne was credited for. I missed him the first time around, but during a second viewing, sure enough, there he was: Wayne played a wheelchair-bound hobo who showed up in the ER, asking for money and to see the "miracle-man" doctor who temporarily healed his friend Bart. It was a very brief appearance, but it's him for sure, mussed up hair and all. I have screens if anyone wants to see: this is definitely the guy who played Alpha 7. – Blue Rook 22:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)talk